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To: All
What do you guys say regarding HBS change to its grade non disclosure policy?
P.S
I got another star
To: jackla
Yevgeny,
I haven't graduated yet so I can't tell stories about my post graduation experience. But I can provide some general details about where people go after HBS (see my previous response to LPOW regarding pre-HBS background. as you'll notice many of us are career switchers
).Here is a partial list of post-HBS employers of graduates from the two years before us and from the guys in my year who already accepted an offer (absolutely no correlation between this list and the pre-hbs list):
McKinsey, Reebok, EMC, Medtronic, Bain & Co., Apax, Lehman Brothers, Lexis-Nexis, SAP. (there are actually more than one of us in a couple of these places).And here is a partial list of locations (again no correlation with previous lists):
New york, San Francisco, Israel, Minnesota, Boston, China, Germany.As you can see there's a wide variety of career tracks you can choose ( I can put a similar list of functions and it will also be diverse).
Regarding Salaries and offers – Without getting into details, almost all of us had an offer by graduation, most of us had more than one offer, our salaries are generally within the HBS average for that industry (which is usually high enough so that you don't lose sleep over your loans).
Regarding treatment of international students, you have to separate that question into two: the industry/company general attitude towards non-US; and competing for jobs in america against americans. Some industries, like banking and consulting, have no issue with internationals and they will gladly take you if you're good enough. others in the US are very anti foreigners, like the car industry. In other industries it changes from company to company. some companies will not recruit internationals at HBS at all, others will recruit internationals to their international locatios and others will have no problems with internationals. Their reasons vary and you shouldn't try to find any logic in their policies.
the general statistic at HBS is that around 50% of the jobs in the job bank aren't open to internationals, but that is a very misleading statistic (in banking almost 100% are open to you, in the car industry almost 100% are closed to you). as I've said, you also need to take into account the competition. as israelis we have several obstacles we need to overcome – many times companies here don't understand our background (what you did in the army etc.); our ability to "sell" ourselves in english is lower than that of the americans; your long term intentions in the company are being questioned; the recruiting process and style are very different than what we are faimliar with and so on. I think the list of post-HBS companies above shows that you can overcome all these hurdles, but they are still there and it means you have to work hard to get what you want.Hope this helps, maybe next year (if I'll have spare time then
) I'll be able to share some post-MBA stories.Danny
HBS MBA Class of 2006To: LPOW
You don't let go, do you
?I'm not sure this is the correct time to answer this question, given that the policy has just been issued yesterday (who's your source?), but I will say the following:
1. HBS is the only school that had until now a formal, school mandated, no disclosure policy. in all the other schools that have this policy, it is a student policy/norm. the difference is that until now in HBS if a recruiter asked you what your grades were, the school would expel him from future recruiting at the school, and if a student provided his/her grades the school could punish the student. In other schools students agree (usually by a vote) not to disclose their grades and there's some debate about how much compliance they have (I know nothing about this so I won't state an opinion either way). therefore, nobody prevents the students at HBS from adopting a similar norm. Time will tell if that happens or not.
2. There are probably two main things this policy reversal will change:
a. the first semester environment – this is already a very stressful time since you're faced with an enormous amount of things you can and should do and it takes time get used to it. it is also stressful because everybody is trying to adjust to a new place and a new system and nobody really knows how things are done and what's required of them. the first semester is also crucial in building a constructive section environment, which many of us think is the best thing you get out of HBS. the fear is that the misconceptions and lack of knowledge about the recruiting process will make people so stressed that they will be unable to create the same kind of environment as today. This does not mean that people won't help each other, but it will cause some people to be less supportive of other people's comment in class and more pushy in trying to get their comment in (remember that 50% of your grade is class participation).
b. recruiting – in some industries (i think the main fear is regarding consulting) this policy reversal will change the recruiting process and make it much more grade-based. in others it won't matter at all. It is impossible to know now what the effects will actually be and I think after the first year people will figure it out and see that mostly it doesn't mean much (the grading curve will stay the same – 10% 1s, 80% 2s and 10% 3s, so almost all people won't be with many 1s).The reason most of the students are opposed to this for three reasons (the third is not really advertised):
a. there are alternative ways to get the same results (more academic rigor) without risking harming the section experience.
b. there are many things that need to be done if the policy is reversed, and we are not sure the administration is going to do them. this will leave students with a half-baked solution.
c. This means you are going to need to work harder for a longer period since it will raise the academic rigor of your fellow students. people will prepare more for class and if you don't you're gonna end up with a lot of 3s which can ruin your job search. Let's face it, most of us who aren't trying to graduate with distinction realize that you can relax a little and still get a lot of 2s and find a job, so why change that.However, the bottom line is still the one I started with – It is way to early to guess what is actually gonna happen and what the implications will be. Therefore my suggestion is get accepted and then start considering what your assessment of the situation is.
Danny
To: LPOW
You don't let go, do you
?I'm not sure this is the correct time to answer this question, given that the policy has just been issued yesterday (who's your source?), but I will say the following:
1. HBS is the only school that had until now a formal, school mandated, no disclosure policy. in all the other schools that have this policy, it is a student policy/norm. the difference is that until now in HBS if a recruiter asked you what your grades were, the school would expel him from future recruiting at the school, and if a student provided his/her grades the school could punish the student. In other schools students agree (usually by a vote) not to disclose their grades and there's some debate about how much compliance they have (I know nothing about this so I won't state an opinion either way). therefore, nobody prevents the students at HBS from adopting a similar norm. Time will tell if that happens or not.
2. There are probably two main things this policy reversal will change:
a. the first semester environment – this is already a very stressful time since you're faced with an enormous amount of things you can and should do and it takes time get used to it. it is also stressful because everybody is trying to adjust to a new place and a new system and nobody really knows how things are done and what's required of them. the first semester is also crucial in building a constructive section environment, which many of us think is the best thing you get out of HBS. the fear is that the misconceptions and lack of knowledge about the recruiting process will make people so stressed that they will be unable to create the same kind of environment as today. This does not mean that people won't help each other, but it will cause some people to be less supportive of other people's comment in class and more pushy in trying to get their comment in (remember that 50% of your grade is class participation).
b. recruiting – in some industries (i think the main fear is regarding consulting) this policy reversal will change the recruiting process and make it much more grade-based. in others it won't matter at all. It is impossible to know now what the effects will actually be and I think after the first year people will figure it out and see that mostly it doesn't mean much (the grading curve will stay the same – 10% 1s, 80% 2s and 10% 3s, so almost all people won't be with many 1s).The reason most of the students are opposed to this for three reasons (the third is not really advertised):
a. there are alternative ways to get the same results (more academic rigor) without risking harming the section experience.
b. there are many things that need to be done if the policy is reversed, and we are not sure the administration is going to do them. this will leave students with a half-baked solution.
c. This means you are going to need to work harder for a longer period since it will raise the academic rigor of your fellow students. people will prepare more for class and if you don't you're gonna end up with a lot of 3s which can ruin your job search. Let's face it, most of us who aren't trying to graduate with distinction realize that you can relax a little and still get a lot of 2s and find a job, so why change that.However, the bottom line is still the one I started with – It is way to early to guess what is actually gonna happen and what the implications will be. Therefore my suggestion is get accepted and then start considering what your assessment of the situation is.
Danny
To: All
I received this in the e-mail, if there is anyone who has not gotten in to Wharton yet (
j/k) you might want to consider Australia….
Dear,
The full-time MBA is changing, with innovative new developments for 2006. To find out how these opportunities could benefit you, attend one of our sessions in Israel.
Melbourne Business School has recently launched a new September intake for the full-time MBA program. We believe that offering two intakes per year provides students more choice and flexibility. It also allows for greater networking opportunities between students in the January and September intakes.The September intake also features a 20 month program with an internship option*. It gives you the opportunity to spend more time in Australia: to develop contacts and networks helping to assist you find employment; may assist in applying for permanent residency and allows you more time to travel and explore Australia, New Zealand and the Asia-Pacific region.
We are also very pleased to announce our new international scholarships: The Dean’s International Management Scholarships are Melbourne Business School’s first full-tuition scholarships available exclusively to international students. The scholarships recognise the high calibre of international students commencing the full-time MBA at MBS each year.
If you are interested in exploring our prestigious MBA program, and talking with a representative of the School, then please register for our Information Session in Tel Aviv. If you are interested in being considered for a personal interview please email us a copy of your CV.
This invitation is also open to your friends or colleagues who would like to know more about our MBA program (please ask them to complete the form as well).
We look forward to hearing from you.
Best Wishes,
Sarah Gill
International Marketing Co-ordinator
Marketing and Admissions Office
Melbourne Business School
color=#990033 [email protected]
*Please note that internships are not guaranteed and students will be required to go through a competitive selection process.Tel Aviv
Jerusalem
Haifa
Hertzeliya
MBA Information Session
MBA Interview Session
MBA Interview Session
MBA Interview Session
Wednesday, 11 January 2006
Appointments Available in January
Appointments Available in January
Appointments Available in January
- יש להתחבר למערכת על מנת להגיב.