ארכיון 1: ???Any Israeli Applicants

[omri]

#2567

In reply to IchiBan from March 18 2004 on 11:03

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Hey,

I agree with you wholeheartedly! right on the money… things is, unless you compromise and go to a lesser knowsn school and then get maybe 50-60% scholarship, chances for that kind of tuition help are scarce. Yet, your chances for a good paying job for an international student are not that great coming out of such a schools (eg. McCombs), catch 22. What do most people do? take loans of 100K?

thnx

omer

[gbiron]

#2568

In reply to IchiBan from March 18 2004 on 11:03

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Ichi,

Not that it hasn't crossed my mind but what can one do? do the MBA in Tel-Aviv, it isn't the same. I'll take my chances with a top 10 MBA and hope that the current back wind in the economy will allow me to return to Israel in five years with a small "mashkanta" that can be delt with on a middle managment salary.

No risk no gain…

[aringo]

#2569

In reply to gbiron from March 18 2004 on 11:43

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Interesting stuff here… I must say I was totally surprised how much money one can save working in the US, where taxes are far from the Israeli cut-throat rates. Just during the summer internship, I saved over $20,000. There were no taxes because taxes are calculated on an annual basis. Then, if you make just $90K the first year (even without a signing bonus, which traditionally was $10-$25K), in the US you are left with 60K (if you do your taxes well), even if you don't have an annual bonus. If you live well in a "normal" city, you could be left with at least $50K of savings one year after b-school. Some of the Israelis actually save $100k within less than two years after graudation.

Gilam

[mbawannabe]

#2570

In reply to Gilam from March 18 2004 on 12:01

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hey Gilan. where did you do your summer internship?

[gbiron]

#2571

In reply to Gilam from March 18 2004 on 12:01

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well that asumming that my wife won't need to compesate herself with some new clothes…

[aringo]

#2572

In reply to mbawannabe from March 18 2004 on 12:07

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I broke it down to two parts. The first 2 months I did with JP Morgan in London. The second part was with Monsanto (a large biotech company which was bought later on) in St. Louis, Missouri. Going from philly to london to israel (vacation) to St. Louis to philly with big suitcases was a bit crazy, but it was a helluva time.

[frgd]

#2573

In reply to IchiBan from March 18 2004 on 11:03

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I am trying very hard to not think about the big question (worth it or not…). I hope that things will work out and that my wife won't need to over-compensate with clothes :).

I am however, trying to find additional funding resources besides the school loans. Although the school will allow me to take a full tuition (+ a bit more) loan, I still need to raise some more money (and do not want to spend all my savings on this quest). The problem is that with a wife and kid I am looking at a very hefty sum here.

[mbawannabe]

#2574

In reply to Gilam from March 18 2004 on 12:16

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how come JP Morgan agreed that you do only hald the time? i thought it is pretty structured…

[kassifo]

#2575

In reply to Gilam from March 18 2004 on 12:01

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Hey Gilam, did any of those Israeli guys you mentioned happen to have families with them? I'm just trying to get an estimate as to how much extra money I should allocate to this adventure, assuming I do have a family…would 30% be right???

[aringo]

#2576

In reply to mbawannabe from March 18 2004 on 13:07

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I told them I really want to do the other internship, asked to shorten their internship by 2 weeks below the minimum, and they agreed after a bit of discussion.

[aringo]

#2577

In reply to kassifo from March 18 2004 on 13:23

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Gush, you're right. I still think as a "ravak"… my estimates and data were related to bachelors. I am really not sure about couples, maybe Roy or others could refer to that.

[dalit]

#2578

In reply to gbiron from March 18 2004 on 12:09

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Not to mantion shoes… This may be a problem…

[gbiron]

#2579

In reply to frgd from March 18 2004 on 12:22

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where are you heading to? I have the same dillema's…

[gbiron]

#2580

In reply to dalit from March 18 2004 on 14:06

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The program offers a specific loan for that…

[IchiBan]

#2581

In reply to gbiron from March 18 2004 on 11:43

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I didn't say I recommend TA, every minute you spend out in the world studying with the creme de la creme of young professionals is worth it. And I'm certainly not aiming for less than top-10. But as in every product, each consumer has different preferences and budgets.

I'd love to go for the 2-year option but I just don't see the ROI for me. I;m not aiming at MCs and IBs and I'm not planning on staying a lot of years working abroad, so the upside is a bit lower than for others.

Besides I would be wary of expecting the bubble to come back. Planning wisely means planning for a recruitment environment as you know it today. It can get better, it can also get worse…

[IchiBan]

#2582

In reply to omri from March 18 2004 on 11:15

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Yes. Even more in some cases. Some manage to pay back, some are still carrying it after 5 years (friend of mine from Chicago, IBer in the UK)

[frgd]

#2584

In reply to gbiron from March 18 2004 on 14:18

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Is there any way I can contact you offline?

[gbiron]

#2585

In reply to frgd from March 18 2004 on 16:37

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gbiro[email protected]

[omri]

#2586

In reply to Gilam from March 18 2004 on 13:26

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Hi GIlam,

your input is very valuable. Still, I would like to ask your opinion about the ROI:

putting the MBA experience (meeting great people, learning new skills etc. )

I am vp marketing in a 100 person software company, and doing very well. Some may say that this is a post MBA position, and in fact many of my colleagues have MBA from TA U. If I spend 100K on an education at Wharton or Duke and do not find a job afterwards (keep in mind I do not havea GC and would require an H-1, )I would then return here and to the same position I have and the same pay….

The friends I have who went for an MBA, were in junior positions and had less to loose so to speak. out 6, 4 are wokring for bcg and alike, two did not find a job (gradauted in 00 and 01) or got laid off and returned to Israel…

Do you meet a lot of people who go for an MBA (from Israel) who leave a 27K job (32years old) in a mid level management position and if so what did they do afterwards?

thnx a lot!!!!

omer

[aringo]

#2587

In reply to omri from March 18 2004 on 16:50

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Omer, I really don't feel qualified, nor objective enough to give you informed advice. If you want to get in, this is where I know what I'm talking about… All in all, you definitely have a dillemma in your hands. Looking five years back all I can say is that the contribution, to me, was far beyond ROI. You know, we bring children and go travel and do things that we are happy doing even if the ROI is not right, I really can't predict what the ROI will bring for you. I have seen people who changed their life in amazing ways following the MBA (Yaron Eitan, Eyal Kaplan, Ronen Melnik, Orit Gadish and dozens more) and the other way around too. At the end, go with your gut, maybe that I can advise you. Put the prestige aside.

Now, I really should go back to my own little thread, otherwise the IIMBA guys will kick my butt.

Gilam

[frgd]

#2590

In reply to omri from March 18 2004 on 16:50

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Omri,

I think that besides the "great experience and exposure" issue the question is (at least for me) how high/far do you want to go.

Imho there is no question that a top mba will open doors that would be much harder to open without. For me, its the (almost) limitless possibilities that attract me to the programs.

[eshinar]

#2591

In reply to frgd from March 18 2004 on 17:50

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I know you, right?

[frgd]

#2593

In reply to eshinar from March 18 2004 on 17:53

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Not sure, were you the guy with the chains?

[danteleman2002]

#2599

In reply to omri from March 18 2004 on 16:50

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Omer,

The chances of not getting a job after graduating a top business school, and especially with your experience, are slim-to-non.

Speaking from my experience at Duke, and bear in mind I graduated in one of the most difficult years for MBAs in terms of recruiting, I haven't had a problem finding a job as an international nor did other international friends.

The US economy is picking up fast and by the time you'll graduate it will be at its peak. Companies are going to fighting over good candidtaes as I heard already happens this year.

Non of the Israelis I know who graduated from a top school has returned to Israel, unless they wanted to.

Danny

[danteleman2002]

#2600

In reply to Gilam from March 18 2004 on 12:01

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I concur. One can save money immidiately after graduation, even when living in New York (myslef for example).

It's almost always a positive NPV project.

For those considering a 1 year MBA, I would caution them about the value recruiters perceive that program to have.

Lastly, when one returns to Israel, it should be at a point where they gained enough valuable experience in the US. In my mind it's not smart to decide right off the bat to go back after X years. It's a question of what you bring back.

[mba]

#2603

In reply to danteleman2002 from March 19 2004 on 02:16

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Danny, I don't agree with you.

There are many Israeli and international students (even in the top-5) that did not find a job and were forced to go back to their countries in the last 2 years. The thing is that you don't hear a lot from them, while the people that do get jobs make more "noise".

[omri]

#2604

In reply to mba from March 19 2004 on 18:48

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Hi Danny and mba,

you are both right, most Israelis find jobs and particularly now that the economy is picking up but, and I do not want to name names, I know o tow people, one from a top NY school, another from a top west coast school who did not find a job back in 01. I also know of two others who are noe in their second year and struggeling. Of course, it is mostly up to each candidate, how they interview and leave a first impression but still, not 100% find a job, unfortunately.

omer

[IchiBan]

#2611

To: danteleman

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Are you saying that someone graduating from Insead or IMD is perceived as inferior to someone coming out of LBS? That's a whopping generalization, there are so many parameters…

[GGGGG]

#2614

To: IchiBan

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Hi Gal,

Do you know how many guys got in this year (1st and 2nd rounds)

Thanks

G

[yuvala]

#2615

To: GGGGG

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4 people got it in R1

there are no R2 results yet (March 31)

[gnadir]

#2616

To: GGGGG

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I know about 3 in R1. I am not sure abour R2.

Gal

[shirgon]

#2617

To: avivi

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Aviv Hi,

Do you have a green-card?

Shira.

[avivi]

#2618

To: shirgon

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Hi Shira, yes I do.

Aviv

[danteleman2002]

#2619

To: IchiBan

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I wasn't reffering to European schools.

Most peole study in the US anyways.

[shirgon]

#2620

To: eshinar

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eshinar hi,

I saw your reply (but it suddenly disappeared)

however, the inevitable question, do you have a green-card?

Shira.

[Dan2004]

#2621

To: shirgon

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האם נרשמת לקולומביה ?

מה הסטטוס שלך?

[eshinar]

#2622

To: shirgon

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No. I don't have a green card, I didn't apply ED and still I got in. People told me that I don't have a chance without a green card – so don't let this dis-info to discourage you at all.

[YAELA]

#2623

To: eshinar, shirgon

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In addition to what eshinar said (by the way: congratz!), I was also accepted to Columbia RD, and I know of another person (ED) : none of us with GC.

[IchiBan]

#2624

To: danteleman2002

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Indeed the US doesn't have any great 1-yr. options.

[eshinar]

#2625

To: YAELA

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Yaela,

May I mail/call you? (need your contact info for that, though)

[omri]

#2626

To: IchiBan

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Hi Dan,

I got into Duke Round 3. I am so excited and want to thank u for your advice on these board and at the Fulbright conference.

Question: how are the scholarships given out at Duke, they say I should hear by apr. 15. Are Rd, 3 applicants considered for financial aid in a pool along with Rd 2 and 1 or is it a different pool. I assume that my chances for financial aid slimmer because I applied in Rd. 3 is that true?

thnx

Omer

[eshinar]

#2627

To: YAELA

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You can also mail me at [email protected]

[YAELA]

#2628

To: eshinar

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maybe we should get together (all the Columbia admits). leave me your email and i'll contact you.

yael.

[mbawannabe]

#2629

To: IchiBan

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Kellogg has an an excellent 1 year program

[kassifo]

#2630

To: omri

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Hi Omer, For what it's worth — I just got a letter from Liz Reilly saying I didn't get any finaid for next year. I guess that means they consider each round separately.
Good luck anyway!

[omri]

#2632

To: kassifo

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THanks for your note.

Did you apply in Rd. 3 or in an earlier round?

Thnx

Omer

[danteleman2002]

#2634

To: omri

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Hi Omer,

Congratulations. You join a group of 7 other lucky applicants who had been accepted to Fuqua.

I'm sure you're going to have a hell of a time.

In terms of financial aid. The best source is the financial aid department at the school. However, if I were you I would not build up any expectations in terms of receiving a scholarship. Your best bet is to apply for the student loan, which can go up to the full amount of tuition.

[kassifo]

#2635

To: danteleman2002

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Hi Danny, is it just the tuition? what about expenses?

[omri]

#2636

To: danteleman2002

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Thanks Dan.

I understand what u are saying. Is it appropriate to contact th Fin aid office or should I wait? Also, are u saying I should not hold my breath because it is Rd 3 or as a general note?

thanks again

Omer

[omri]

#2637

To: kassifo

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sorry u did not get the scholarship. I was not relying on it but it would be nice. I guess I should not expect much for Rd. 3

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